Basic Questions on Seeburg 3wa and wb2mp3

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This topic contains 9 replies, has 2 voices, and was last updated by  scudie 4 days, 8 hours ago.

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  • #46762

    bobwiley
    Participant

    Hi,

    Working on getting my wallbox to work properly and was hoping for some hints to help me trouble shoot.

    Here’s what it it currently doing. If I give it a credit it automatically starts cycling without me pushing in numbers or letters to make a selection and does not stop unless I manually move to subtract credit reel which it will then stop at the end of that cycle. I can push buttons down when there is no credit and they release like they are supposed to. If I give it a credit it automatically starts cycling and i can push buttons down mid cycle to get it them to stay down shortly on their own. And then it will release the selection at the end of the cycle. So far I’ve gotten 3 different songs to play through the wallbox2mp3 but have not been able to replicate those song to play again when I press the corresponding letters and numbers.

     

    So my wallbox2mp3 questions are:

    1. Does the wallbox2mp3 immediately play a song when it gets the signal, or is there a delay of a “x” seconds before a song starts?

    2. How long will the wallbox2mp3 accept a signal? I’m wondering if my stepper unit is slow on the revolutions per minute is it will still interpret the signal or if the wallbox have to be within the factory specs to read the song selection signal.

    3. Are there led indicators stating when its detected a signal and is playing it, or a signal is detected but can’t decipher what song its supposed to be?

     

    Wallbox questions:

    I’m going to try to work on this and double check I have everything cleaned and adjusted properly, but I don’t have a lot of time to work on it. The only repair guy I know says he can only work on it when he has a compatible jukebox in his shop to try it with, and so far he doesn’t have any coming in. Every now and then I see used untested parts, like the credit unit for sale. Is it worth throwing money at parts or are these things pretty bullet proof if there isn’t any physical sign of damage? What is the common electro mechanical thing that goes/breaks on Seeburg wallboxes? I just noticed that shipping  relatively is expensive and most wallboxes in my price range are untested, so didn’t know if one comes along I’d be smart grabbing it to see it it works, or at least swap out the troubled/suspect parts and hope to cobble together a working one.

    Thanks!

     

    #46764

    scudie
    Participant

    Hi Bobwiley

    What model 3wa have you got ?

    Do you have a manual for it? If not there is one in the support section on this site.

    I think if it was me I would start by looking at why the wiper arm starts &  continues to turn without making a selection, when you cancell the credit does the arm stop in the home, non credit position ?

    when a credit is established the motor should move the wiper arm to the credit position and then stop, there are two motor start switches  one is triggered by the letter buttons & the other by Numbers  check that both of these switches are open when the wiper arm is in the credit position ie with the power off manually advance wiper arm until the mechanism lever drops over the first step on the cam. Check that the arm is in its correct position.

    Cheeers Scudie

    #46766

    scudie
    Participant

    Good Evening Bobwiley

    just had chance to look at & read again your queries from earlier today, my time was a little limited earlier!

    As far as I have seen wallbox’s that don’t work  are normally down to the fact that someone has either removed something possibly  to repair another box. Or something is damaged because of careless handling while it has been removed from its location poor storage or shipping.  The electromechanical type of wallbox’s are normally very robustly built and I have only had one instance where I have had to buy a replacement component because I could not figure a way of repairing it.

    I certainly would not start buying any replacement parts untill it has been established  that your machine does indeed require them.

    In my oppinion the most complicated part of my 3wa which from memory is a V3WAD I think , is the credit unit which on mine is  unplugable but apparently on some versions of the 3wa is hard wired.

    The wb2mp3 unit should start to play the chosen selection within a couple of seconds of the wiper arm returning to either the rest/home position or if further credits have been established the credit position.

    The wb2mp3 recieves a train of ground/ earth pulses as the wiper arm passes over the contacts on the circular board, with the wb2mp3 there is no requirement to have a stepper connected,  the stepper would have originally been inside the jukebox and would have converted the pulse sent by the wallbox into a selection for the tormat memory unit.

    There is certainly led’s mounted to the wb2mp3 board, in the manual it describes how one of them can be used to diagnose certain faults.

    Hope this helps

    Scudie

     

    #46768

    bobwiley
    Participant

    Hey Scudie,

    Thanks for the replies!

    I got a chance to work on it and made some progress. Its stamped stating it’s a D 3WA. It has a plug in dual pricing unit DPU-10.

    If I start the wallbox with no credits the motor carryover will go to the standby position and I can freely push down the numbers and letters and they do not latch.  Carryover switches  U V W will be open, closed, open (just as the manual says). Adding change will correctly trigger the DPU-10 to add credits. The credit light will go on and the notched cam wheel will rotate to the credit position and so will the motor carryover wiper arm. The arm looks like it is the the proper “v” shape. I can press and lock in numbers and letters (and release them by pressing a different button) just like I should. Depressing a number and letter will cause the signal switch to momentarily close and the corresponding letter and number motor starting switches will stay closed. The carryover switch (UVW) will have all contacts open in the credit position. If in the credit position I press down a selection and I manually lift the carryover switch so the U V W switch is closed, open, closed just like the manual, the wallbox will cycle a full revolution and play a selection (not necessarily the one I picked!), reset the numbers and letters and return to the credit position. I can’t get it to subtract a credit yet. If in the credit position and the DPU 10 is in the credit position and I don’t make a selection and the motor starting switches are open and i trigger the carryover switches to the cycling position it will cycle and return to the credit position and not play a song. If the motor carryover wiper switches are in the credit position and I put the DPU-10 in the no credit position, the credit lights will go out and it won’t cycle. Same deal if the motor carryover wiper switches are in the standby mode, it won’t cycle unless a credit is added like it is supposed to.

    I know the credit cancel switches I need to look at in detail and it’s hard to access them. But I notice the firm metal bracing leads that don’t have contacts on them are touching a different leaf than they are mounted to. I’m guessing they got bent wrong and maybe are shorting a signal, hence why the credits arent canceling.

    What I’m really stumped on is why it won’t auto cycle once I make a selection… I’m going to try to make a video to maybe help show what’s going on.

     

    #46771

    scudie
    Participant

    Hi Bobwiley

    Good to hear that you have made progress, had a bit of a look at the manual looks like the motor gets its ground through contact E of the credit cancel switch.

    I can’t believe how rusty I am in the respect of the 3wA, I will try to find an hour to grab my 3wa and get it connected so I can refresh myself on its workings.

    Cheers Scudie

    #46772

    bobwiley
    Participant

    Okay, some dumb questions.

    First, it shouldn’t send the signal until the buttons are pressed and then the motor carryover wiper arm brushes across the contacts, correct? I’ve had a few instances where the wallbox2mp3 starts playing a song just by me pressing some buttons and it hasn’t cycled yet. Guessing it’s just a “leaky” signal of electrical interference. I need to get the proper type of wire and gauge yet (currently using speaker wire from the wallbox to the wallbox2mp3).

    2nd, for me to solve the issue of random songs playing. First I should make sure I have the right gauge wire and length for the signal to the wallbox2mp3.  2nd I  should have the the contacts clean for the motor carryover. Then 3rd the contacts for the numbers and letters. I did some initial cleaning back when I first got it. For the numbers and letters, what6the best way to clean them out, should I try to take each row out, or is spraying with electrical contact spray solvent/cleaner an appropriate thing to do?

     

    I’m just stumped on this motor cycling thing. I feel like I’m so close. Once I make the selection of a number and letter (in either order, number or letter first, then the other) in the credit position it should just automatically cycle right? Is there a step or switch I’m missing or not thinking of? When the number and letter motor starting switches are closed, what are they supposed to signal to get the motor carryover arm to move. If the motor starting switches are supposed to trigger the carryover switches U VW to go closed open closed, I don’t get how, as it’s a mechanical bar that lifts the carryover switches via a cam.

     

     

     

    #46773

    bobwiley
    Participant

    Thanks scudie!

    #46774

    bobwiley
    Participant

    Okay, here’s a link to some pictures. I’ve also linked a video showing it in action. https://imgur.com/a/uFNiqHJ

     

    Here’s the video https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bIBkhsFR_H3_abMOU4Z6kEwWN8qB_zRk/view?usp=drivesdk

     

     

    #46776

    scudie
    Participant

    Hi Bobwiley

    First it should not play any music until after the wiper arm has made a complete sweep of the contact board. When you configured the sd card did you tick any of the random play options? If you did I would format and configure again without random, in my experience it can make the system unstable.

    I don’t think the gauge of wire will be the cause of your problems, I am currently using house telephone wire for a couple of wallbox’s that are at least a metre away from the Wb2mp3 unit.

    Stripping the selection switches is quite an involved job I have done it and cleaned each part of the switches in a strong detergent with an old toothbrush & if they are badly tarnished given them a rub with sore Duraglit metal polish.

    However I doubt that the selection switches are at the route of your problem, you could check there operation with a multimeter that has either ohms or a continuity function, I think I am correct in saying that,

    with no selection buttons pressed

    one probe connected to the chassis and the other on the first  of the selection contacts (V)  on the circular disc you should have continuity, work your way around the contacts through to A  & then the numbers  1 through to ten, you should have continuity on them all.

    If then V was selected with the button the V contact should have continuity but all the other letters should be open circuit ie no continuity.

    If V is released by pressing say L contacts V through to & including L should have continuity to ground / chassis but K to A again should be open circuit.

    Hope this helps

    Scudie.

     

     

     

    #46777

    scudie
    Participant

    Hi Bobwiley

    Have just watched your video, the signal shorting switch should be open when the buttons are released & when latched Ie pressed in.

    It should close as the button is pressed approximately 1/2 way in.

    Are you sure that when you establish a credit that it is enough for a selection ?

    Say for instance a nickel registers one credit but you need 2 credits to make a selection? A dime would automatically register 2 credits and a quarter 6 credits.

    Cheers Scudie

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