Help setting up SC2

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    • #48047
      richbooth
      Participant

      I have an Seeburg SC2 that I finally managed to open without damage.

      I set up my 3WA without issue, but having trouble with this one.  I connect my 24VAC transformer to the RED and ORANGE on the terminal strip and no lights turn on. If I press the 2 coin switches, the credit unit tries to tick up a credit, but it gets stuck. I suspect that might need a good cleaning.

      From my old electronics repair days, I remember the deader the better, as it is usually a power issue.  I tried  to follow the red and orange wired and they seem to terminate on the coin switch.  This leads me to believe that I need to add 24VAC somewhere else as well, as there is no clear path to power the lights.

      Does anyone have any suggestions on where I should hook up the power?

      Also, does this unit have to be rigged in free play mode or should it work with coins?

       

      Cheers!

    • #48048
      Scudie
      Participant

      Hi Richbooth

      If your SC2 is wired the same as an SC1 it would appear that you have wired your transformer to the small connector strip that I believe was intended for the income totaliser.

      Locate the 7 terminal stip and connect your transformer to black (ground ) and white (25VAC )

      The choice of having it working on coins or free play is up to you.

      Providing your wallbox has a credit unit that has no broken gears ( they are plastic & the teeth shear off) there is no reason why you can’t have it working on coins.

      Theres no mention of it in the manual for the wb2mp3 but the literature from data sync the following,  I am not sure why the resistor is required just passing on the info.

      Hope the information helps.

      Cheers Scudie

      • #48055
        Klaatu
        Keymaster

        @scudie : regarding datasync resistor, I never tried it, but could it be an other way to turn it to free play ?
        Even if it’s easier to change a cable location for same purpose.

    • #48049
      Scudie
      Participant

      Hi Richbooth

      I forgot to ask if you had made any headway regarding the missing selections on the 3WA?

      Cheers Scudie

    • #48050
      richbooth
      Participant

      Scudie,

      You have a great memory! No, I have not made any headway.  As near as I can figure, It has to be shutting off signaling prematurely on the “0” selections.  If I check them with a DVM they read as they should, they only are wrong when the wiper spins around. That tells me my button switches are OK and the wires to the “disc” are OK. I’m not familiar enough with the switches to know which one cuts off the reading (though I did read something about they do stop it to prevent people from playing without coins.).  Any ideas are welcome and appreciated!

      As for the SC2 I’m going to try your suggestion, and will report back.

    • #48051
      richbooth
      Participant

      Scudie,

       

      I’m starting to understand these things, if only a little.  I did check the gears, and they appear to be in good shape, but didn’t tear them apart.  I have to imagine that someone has a 3D print rendering of them?

      Once I connected as you outlines, it came to life.  Buttons didn’t work but it woke up.  A few hours tweaking and cleaning and it is working.  Too tired to hook it up to the WallBox2MP3 tonight.

      I did notice that the buttons pop out almost immediately, where as on the 3WA they stay in for a few seconds before clearing. Don’t know if that is normal for these units?

      Have to ask a personal opinion: this unit is a copper unit that is in tough shape… certainly more than some polish.  Saw one that was refinished in gloss red and thought it was quite sharp. Would giving it a nice coat of red lacquer detract for the collector value of this item? They do have copper-ish spray paint, which is an option.

      Also, the front glass and left glass are cracked.  I notice they have silk screening on them. What do people do ? Just replace the glass with plain? Look for someone selling old glass? Buy aftermarket?

    • #48052
      Scudie
      Participant

      Hi

      The buttons should stay in similar to the 3WA sounds like part of the mech is either damaged /distorted or someone has been adjusting & got it set up wrong.

      As to the copper finish / value it’s something I have never considered, I have not owned an SC2 I did have an Sc1 with a copper front cover that had been painted brown, once the paint had been removed it was obvious enough why it had been painted.

      I had it sand blasted & powder coated (big mistake)

      As to the side glass I have not seen any originals for sale, there was a listing on eBay for a complete decal kit to do the three main glass’s.

      I did buy a front cover that was missing all its glass parts (as I had a complete spare chassis) I cut some glass and spray painted the black and gold sections on the inside of the glass, Obviosly the little motif was missing as I did not try to replicate it but as I had done a pair they matched.

      Cheers Scudie

       

       

    • #48053
      Klaatu
      Keymaster

      For the sign glass, you can ask a shop making vinyl sign, if they can reproduce it.
      Either black printed on gold, or one gold sheet + one black sheet for lettering.

      Or like Scudie did, spray paint.

      Regarding value because it’s repainted. Who cares, it’s yours, make one you like. They could be 2-tone painted also with all those square shape. Only a matter of test and imagination.

    • #48054
      Klaatu
      Keymaster

      I saw some decals too for sell, I think the seller is a french guy (or someone-else also making decals?), but the font/police is totally wrong and way too bold !
      If you reproduce, do it right at least !

    • #48062
      richbooth
      Participant

      Hello all,

       

      I learning a lot about these wallboxes… like how incredibly simple their task is, but how complex a task it is to do it!  I’m also learning that there isn’t a whole lot of repair options for someone to breathe life back into them.  For my 3WA I’m going to leave it for now without unique selections for A-V + 0.

      For the SC2, its a bit more complicated.  I have the thing working, but am receiving no signal from BLUE (3rd connection from the right on the large connector) to ground.  Interestingly, If i look for signal from BLUE to 24V I do show signal, but the voltage is always high, and goes to ground causing the signal to be inversed.

      Anyone have any ideas where to start on this? Has anyone used a reliable company to repair these stateside if I admit to defeat? (I’m not ready for that, yet!)

    • #48076
      Scudie
      Participant

      Hi Richbooth

      As far as I am aware all of the E M type wallbox’s that I have worked on have had a signal that is a series of ground pulse’s.

      Certainly not pulses of 25vac.

      Sorry can’t sugest anyone stateside for repairs, stick with it you’ll get there.

      I assume you have a manual for the unit?

      Cheers Scudie

    • #48079
      richbooth
      Participant

      Hi Scufir,

       

      just learned something funny… when I enter “Scudie” my auto correct changes it to “Advisor”. 😂

      i have managed to make some progress, albeit a little bit. I have determined that there is a switch that interrupts the signal when disconnected (presumably to prevent cheating?).  I followed the signal wires backwards to this switch. The wire is white with a blue stripe. If I bypass the switch, I can get the LED I added across the signal wires to flash. I know I need to figure the adjustment procedure for this switch and the rotating wiper. A service manual for the SC2 would be nice, but I can’t seem to find one. Perchance do you have one?

    • #48080
      Randy
      Participant

      There is an SC manual in the combined Seeburg file in the Support section of this web site.

      Randy

    • #48081
      Randy
      Participant

      Now that I went back and looked there is a stand alone SC1 manual in the support section.  I thought that the only differences between SC1s and 2s was the color scheme/coin size acceptance. So the issue you have would not be related to model – I may be wrong. Good luck

      Randy

    • #48082
      Scudie
      Participant

      Hi All

      As far as I am aware the SC1-4 are the same apart from colours , some had a red waitress button where the low volume button usually is, don’t know what this model was called.

      The SCH accepted half dollar coins as well as the( I think ) the usual other three.

      Cheers Scudie

    • #48098
      richbooth
      Participant

      To all who offered help along the way, “Thank you!”

      I finally managed to get my SC2 functioning as it was designed to. Turns out it was a combination of things keeping her from operating correctly. It required the button reset bar to be adjusted, the switches needed adjustment and finally the WOM (Wall-O-Matic) wiper assembly adjustment. Those three items, and a good coin slot cleaning was all it took.
      I’ve wet sanded the whole unit as the copper coating was in tough shape, and sprayed it gloss red. I needed to replace the front and side glass which required some graphic work.  It actually came out better than I thought. I need to make a cable and replace a few light bulbs and it’s ready for display.  I’ll post photos when it’s completely finished.

      I’m ready to re tackle the 3WA again!

    • #48099
      Scudie
      Participant

      Hi Richbooth

      Its good to hear that your making progress with your SC2.

      I guess you are having the Wb2mp3 unit outside the SC2,

      I have a red SC1 in my kitchen (my 3rd) I think it goes really well wth the kitchen colour scheme. It’s freeplay and uses the inbuilt speakers so just the mains cable to plug in.

      Cheers Scudie

       

    • #48109
      doogle
      Participant

      Hi All,

      well I got all my bits and pieces and have my sc1 wall box up and running, the emulator is a nice piece of kit, and using SD cards very easy, but I have one problem don’t know if anyone else has experience this, but if I turn the sound knob passed a certain point it interferes with the sound output and music is interrupted, it only likes to be in the very low side, but then it’s to low for me, I haven’t tried the remote pot yet  does it isolate the fixed pot?, Thanks doogle

    • #48110
      richbooth
      Participant

      Hi doogle,

      Your didn’t mention what you are feeding the sound into, but if first check using a pair of headphones into the 3.5mm Jack onboard the WallBox2MP3 and see if the sound is OK. Also, there is a bank of DIP switches  #3 switches between Amolifier type A/B and D.  I have mine set to A/B feeding the speakers in my wallbox and it plays great.

      To me, it sounds like you are feeding into an amplified device and it is limiting it out. Reply back and let us know what’s going on.

       

    • #48111
      richbooth
      Participant

      By the way, thanks to those that helped me along the way getting mine refurbished. I’m almost there. Just need to cover the speakers, but don’t know whether it is cloth or perforated metal. I’ve attached before and after photos. Cheers, Scudie for the color selection.Before
      After

    • #48113
      doogle
      Participant

      Hi Richbooth,

      Thanks for your reply, The sound is being fed straight from the emulator into the sc1 wallbox but the volume pot doesn’t like it being moved to the level I want, it interferes with the sound it cuts in and out if I turn it up, very annoying

    • #48114
      richbooth
      Participant

      You didn’t indicate if you tried using headphones in the 3.5mm Jack and if the same thing happened. You can try the external pot just remember to switch the dip switch on the Wallbox2MP3 unit.

    • #48115
      doogle
      Participant

      Hi richbooth,

      ok I tried the earphones and it doesn’t happen but the the sound is very very quiet until the end of the pot is reached, also the wallbox speakers are still on not sure wether jack should cut them off but as soon as jack removed problem is back, and the switch is ab.

    • #48128
      Scudie
      Participant

      Hi Doogle

      I am not sure what the difference is between the two classes of amp that is now fitted to the V1.5 class A/B & D

      Have you bought your V1.5 since they have re introduced them back on sale? As they were withdrawn for a time because of audio problems related to the volume pot.

      It might be worth checking with the team to check that you have one of the newer ones.

      Secondly the amp on the V1.4 was of a type were each speaker negative / ground had to be completely independent of the other speaker.

      On the Seeburg consolettes the speakers use a common negative / ground which the V1.4 was not compatible with unless the speaker negative/ ground circuitry and wiring was adapted. I think if my memory serves me correctly that one of the amp types on the V1.5 is OK to use with a common ground circuit but the other not.

      Again I would check with the team.

    • #48129
      doogle
      Participant

      Hi Scudie,

      Thanks for your input, yes I have just bought it, after it was reintroduced after updates, I have separate my negs on the speakers as the download manual advices it, I purchased it from this site, I will contact them and see what they say, but a bit disappointed at the moment

    • #48137
      Scudie
      Participant

      Hi Doogle

      I forgot to ask if you had wired the speakers directly to the V1.5 or are you connecting the V1.5 audio output  to the terminal block inside the Consolette thus utilising the Seeburg volume contol & wiring?

      Cheers Scudie

    • #48138
      doogle
      Participant

      Hi Scudie,

      yes I wired from the emulator terminals up to the wallbox terminal strip and then use the L. M. H. Buttons. Is that correct?

    • #48140
      doogle
      Participant

      Hi Scudie,

      that’s one of the reasons I bought it as it was supposed to work on the wallbox, is there something that has to be altered to utilise the wallbox buttons

      cheers doogle

    • #48144
      Klaatu
      Keymaster

      Connect the speakers DIRECTLY to the board (wire from rear of cone speaker to wb2mp3 board, 2 negatives, 2 positive wires), not through volume buttons connections, and tell us if the sound is correct ?

    • #48145
      doogle
      Participant

      Hi

      yes I’ve done that and the sound is ok, that’s why I asked if there was any changes to make. Thanks

       

    • #48147
      Klaatu
      Keymaster

      Use the search engine, there is a thread about the modifications needed to use the buttons.
      Need soldering, new resistors to adjust volume balance between the 3 buttons…

    • #48148
      Klaatu
      Keymaster
    • #48149
      Scudie
      Participant

      Hi Doogle

      It’s in the tutorial section, listed as (wiring volume control on Seeburg Sc1-4)

      You shouldn’t require any new resistors unless there are any of the originals that are faulty or you require / desire a larger change in volume levels between the three selections.

      Cheers Scudie

       

      • This reply was modified 1 year, 7 months ago by Scudie.
    • #48151
      doogle
      Participant

      Hi Scudie &Klaatu.

      thanks for your help, I have changed the speaker wiring as you have done, I’ve not changed any resistors, I don’t understand why my tracks break up when I turn up my volume knob,  is it because of the resistors why I get break up while playing a track . Thanks

      doogle

       

    • #48152
      Scudie
      Participant

      Hi  Doogle

      Does the sound /audio break up when you turn up the volume using the pot on the V1.5 or is it when you are pressing one of  the three buttons on the SC ?

      Cheers Scudie

    • #48153
      doogle
      Participant

      Hi Scudie,

      yes when it’s playing if the volume knob on the v1.5 is turned up it has the effect of interrupting the track playing breaks up it sort of stop starts, the volume on the v1.5 is only turned about 1/2 of the way, one thing I’ve noticed when it does happen the blue on light slightly flickers and dips.

      doogle

    • #48154
      Scudie
      Participant

      Hi Doogle

      If the audio is adversely affected by adjusting the volume pot on the V1.5 I would have initially thought that the fault had to be on the V1.5 but as you have already stated that the sound was good when you connect the v1.5 directly to the speakers, then I start to think it has to be relevant to the volume control circuit & or associated wiring of the SC but presently I can not figure out how by adjusting the volume  pot on the V1.5 can have any the Seeburg cicuit.

      And the audio is also good when listening with earphones, Ie no braking up of the audio when volume pot is adjusted?

    • #48165
      doogle
      Participant

      Hi Scudie,

      Just to say thanks for your input and I’m not ignoring you, I have to put it aside for a while,  got jobs to finish before Christmas and running out of time. I shall return.

      cheers doogle.

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